Greetings, all.

This is likely to be a long post, so please bear with me. For the sake of this post, my name is "DJ Aaron", or you can call me "Aaron Hungwell"or "Aaron 'The Pimp'".
A little about myself: I have been a WORKING DJ (read:consistant work, making money) for 20 years solid. I still do it for fun, but it is not the center of my universe anymore, even though I still work at a VERY busy nightclub with on the average 1000+ people on my night. Nowadays, I do more Remix, Music production, Scoring, syncing, licencing and Intellectual Property stuff - a logical progression from the days of wax.

I remember being one of only 3 guys playing House Music here in Phoenix back in 1986 - you know, the old Jackmaster Farley stuff, the Hot Mix 5 and DJ International labels, etc. yada yada yada...anyhows..

The guy who taught me how to be a better mixer/programmer for a nightclub was militant. He'd ball me out if I screwed up a mix - and I was still in High School at the time, still learning how to spin music for adults! But as the years went on, it paid off - I can mix with my eyes closed, and can spend the time many DJ's worry about "the beat" to concentrate on programming, DJ responsibilities, etc.
When I heard about the Mix Mesiter series from a friend of mine, I was skeptical at best. My inherent disdain for DJ's that use Serato or traktor or whatever instead of CD's or Vinyl is not hard to miss - this jives with my philosophy that too many people have become Djs when they probably shouldn't have because technology made them sound better than they really are - that they moved too quickly from the bedroom in their mom's house to the Main room in a busy nightclub without the seasoning and practice that comes from doing it for years...but I digress...suffice it to say, Limewire and a computer doth not maketh one a DJ!

That said, my night is so rediculously busy, that a computer solution seemed like a potential work-around. After all, I feel I 'earned" the right to use a 'puter live, as I can shift in-an-out of that mode at the drop of a dime. And with MM6/Fusion, one still needed to do their homework to make is sound right (read: tweaks, etc.) - so I don't feel like I'm "cheating"...(so much)

This long backstory is simply to put a context here: I KNOW WTF I AM TALKING ABOUT. It's not to brag or boast, as there are certainly a gazillion more DJ's that are certainly more talented than me, but rather to let you know that my next points are not simply pulled out of my ass - they are concerns,suggestions,praises and questions from a vetran that has experience and has an idea what he's talking about, and that ANY legitamate DJ also would have. So, without further adeu, here goes:


Mixmeister Fusion

GOOD THINGS:

-Suppoprt for VST Plugins
-Preset-Crossfades for mixing "on The Fly"
a modern interface (i take pause at even mentioning this, as I really don't care THAT much)
-more choices with the pre-set filter automation (midrange,bass and treble)
-effect automation (albeit rudimentary)
-decent CD authoring capabilities

BAD THINGS:
-LACK OF SUPPORT FOR MixMeister 6 .MXM files. - This is unnacceptable. With all due repect, saying that there is no way to convert the tweak settings from MM6 to MM:Fusion is bogus. It's either lazy programming or poor programming, if not both. There IS a way to get them to translate, guys, weather it be a mini app or a built in conversion feature in the next release. There is simply NO excuse not to do this. For petes sake, WE CAN TRRANSLATE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN AND GRREK based from the inscriptions from a SINGLE ROCK! It's just numbers, guys - it can be done. Once it is, you'll likely find more people making the migration to Fusion from MM6.

-SOUND QUALITY
It needs help. I am generally loathe to use .mp3s in a nightclub stting, as lossy formats pronounce their shortcomings in that environment, but then again, I don't think mm6/Fusion was intended for the type of DJ that really cares much about this (hence, the support for plug-ins to help smooth it out/cover it up). To this point, I ONLY use 320 .mp3s (no vbr).To make things dicier, in Fusion, if one auditions a song in their catalog, and then auuditions it in the playlist or timeline AT THE ORIGONAL PITCH SETTING, wether beatslice is on or off, there is a noticable difference in sound quality, noticibly on the high-end. This high end "roll-off" ir consistant with a master tempo adjustment from a Denon or Pioneer CD player with Master Tempo activated. That being said, my suspicions are that in Turntable Mode, MM Fusion exists in what one might call a "Persistant Time Compression/Expansion Environment", or PTCEE. Why isn't there a way to activate this and de-activate this after the mix is done? Even mm6 sounds better than Fusion in this regard, and THAT, my friends, is one of the HUGE Achillies Heel of MM Fusion - the PTCEE. Similarly, when in Beat Slicer mode, the micro-edits that the softare uses to quantize the beats to a grid are simply too damn noticable. It sounds like the software is micro-sliceing the individual tracks to something akin to 32nd and 64th notes. Now granted, this is neccesary as part f the 'auto mix" feature of this program, but when a tempo marker is put back to "origonal tempo", it is still notibly audible. Why not have the program do mini-crossfades to compensate, a la Ableton? This is simply unnaceptable for nightclub play, escpecially when useing a lossy format (.mp3s) and songs that are bass-heavy in nature. Have YOU ever attempted to cut a simple sine wave? You know what I'm talking about then....

-lack of support for .m4a.mp4.aac formats
It is a superior compression codec, hands down. On the average, a 128 .aac/.mp4.m4a is the equivalent to a 160 or 192 .mp3 - some even think higher. It's not like 'm talking ogg or Monkey's Audio - I'm talking a very popular codec that is common, and built into certain music organizational programs such as iTunes.

-Lack of a Macintosh version

I know I'll get flamed for this, but the Apple platforms seems ideal for this. At least an Intel-based mac bianary if not for the PPC. to this end, Serato beats you with a stick.

-Default origonal tempo reversion a la MM 6 - there is NO reason to have to change the songs to match the tempo of the first song. I know this appeals to bedroom DJS that throw a bunch of .mp3 into the program and think "WOW! LOOK MA! I CAN MIX! I CAN MIX!" even though their crappy, limewire-downloaded .mp3s sound even worse because they are all squished to 140 bpm! In all seriousness, this should be at least a feature that is toggleable.

-lack of tempo consistancy betweeen the timeline and the playlist - When I say "origonal tempo", I want the playlsit to say "100.0%", nothing else. In addition, I want it not to sound like it's beat sliceing! Otherwise, I start hearing the choppiness of the beat slicer.

-Your minimum reequirements = shenanigans - The rig I have used for fusion is a Pentium 4 2.4 with 1.5 gigs of Ram and a SATA HD (16meg buffer, 7200 rpm) with Windows XP Sp2. I am WAAAAAY above your system requirements, yet in "Live Mode", I always have to be sure it doesn't choke if I make too many changes on the fly - I am running it off of a M-audio Delta 1010Lt. Even though my spces are a bit slow by todays standards, I am waaaay above the minimum requirements stated on the box and website. And I run an optimized, clean system too! No crappy viruses, adware, screen savers, etc.

-"Live Mode"? Not so much... - Like I stated earlier, one must be careful about trying to change parameters "on the fly" while in "Live Mode". If you, say, make a volume curve adjustment mid-mix, you are likley going to choke they system. Live mode effectivley creates a second session of the program, but the raw DSP power their TC/E algorithms use is daunting for a "Intel Pentium or AMD Athlon 1.0 GHz or higher". So, be sure to have your tweaks and settings done ahead of time...and a Mix-CD cued up...just in case.

-Easily editable beatmix settings - One shouldnt have to know XML to edit beatmix settings. This should be something as simple as a "save as..." dialog so one can add volume and effect-centric transitions as a default. Example, I should be able to have a "beatmix 8 -filter" preset that I can make that would have a LPF automated in a curve that went for 8 measures based on the grid....easily.

-Crossfading in the timeline - I know Fusion isn't a DAW, but cross-fading between edits is common on software from 15 years ago! Why not here, so cuts/tweaks can be made "smoother"?


Three. So, all this being said, I am likely going to make a REVERSE migration to MM6. And remember guys, this is from a person that STARTED with Fusion, but found the features in MM6 to siply be implemented more intuitively.

In Conclusion: Mix Meister:fusion, in ths reporter's opinion, is geared for Techno Djs and bedroom DJ's where most of these problems are ameliorated greatly - the choppiness of the "beat slicer" is not as noticable in higher-tempo songs, and most bedroom/noob DJs that look for an auto-mix software generally have untrained ears to know any better. Because that's the only reason I can think of why these issues arent being addressed easier.

Please don't flame, as I have seen other Dj's ask questions similar/related to this and simply get no response. For example, when users have asked about tweaks and migrating to Fusion from MM6, all they get is "it's a different program!b..b..but it's a different program!" O RLY? Then why is it Fusion 7.02 instead of 1.02?

If I am wrong or mis-informed, please help me out here...there are still a few things about this softwarre I am figuring out!

Much Respect -

Aaron

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Aaron Hungwell,

quote:

-Default origonal tempo reversion a la MM 6 - there is NO reason to have to change the songs to match the tempo of the first song. I know this appeals to bedroom DJS that throw a bunch of .mp3 into the program and think "WOW! LOOK MA! I CAN MIX! I CAN MIX!" even though their crappy, limewire-downloaded .mp3s sound even worse because they are all squished to 140 bpm! In all seriousness, this should be at least a feature that is toggleable.

That Statement and it's derogatory invictive towards 'bedroom' DJ's does not gel with this statement;

quote:

Much Respect -

Please be aware of the rules of the forum and keep any such prejudice to yourself! At *this* site, we believe that every user of MixMeister products has the right to post and enjoy the forums without being criticised for the fact that they have chosen to pursue a different career to 'Working DJ'.

quote:

Please don't flame, as I have seen other Dj's ask questions similar/related to this and simply get no response. For example, when users have asked about tweaks and migrating to Fusion from MM6, all they get is "it's a different program!b..b..but it's a different program!" O RLY? Then why is it Fusion 7.02 instead of 1.02?

MM_Aaron has stated in several threads that Fusion/Studio 7 are total 'ground-up' rebuilds, therefore (as has been stated MANY times before), the engine does NOT operate in the same manner as previous incarnations - Strangely enough my copy of Studio 6 won't load my MM1 mixes exactly the same either!

quote:

BAD THINGS:
-LACK OF SUPPORT FOR MixMeister 6 .MXM files. - This is unnacceptable. With all due repect, saying that there is no way to convert the tweak settings from MM6 to MM:Fusion is bogus. It's either lazy programming or poor programming, if not both. There IS a way to get them to translate, guys, weather it be a mini app or a built in conversion feature in the next release. There is simply NO excuse not to do this. For petes sake, WE CAN TRRANSLATE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN AND GRREK based from the inscriptions from a SINGLE ROCK! It's just numbers, guys - it can be done. Once it is, you'll likely find more people making the migration to Fusion from MM6.

It took teams of Archeologists and cryptographers decades to decipher the rosetta stone!

It's also been mentioned many times before, that not all software is backwards compatible, from OS (Windows XP for example), thru' to Music apps (Bottom end products like Ejay HipHop, thru' to full on DAWs such as reason).

quote:

I'm talking a very popular codec that is common, and built into certain music organizational programs such as iTunes.

You may have missed MM_Aarons earlier post today detailing that the next update to Fusion includes updates to Supported file formats and includes .aac and .ogg

iTunes tracks, due to it's DRM will not work within ANY MixMeister product unless you Burn to CD, and then Rip to another format without DRM.

quote:

-Your minimum reequirements = shenanigans -

Ok Minimum reequirements (sic), means that - the minimum to run the software and produce mixes, to take the point another way if I want run Doom 3 (for example) with all the graphics wacked up full, then I need a better system than if I just want to play the game.

The more you add in 'on the fly' the harder the PC has to work to keep everything going, and keep to whatever you have set your performance settings to.

General Points:

Beat Slicing - ALL MixMeister products use timestretching algorithims, as do DAWs such as Ableton, all of them have their issues - MM5,MM6 also had issues, check the old threads if you don't want to take my word for it!

In addition WRT performance, if you try to change things 'on the fly' in MM6, you'll find that there is a significant time lapse before you hear your changes take effect - according to Aaron this is one of the main reasons for upgrading the engine, the older MixMeister products are not competitive in the marketplace when using this as a benchmark.

quote:

and most bedroom/noob DJs that look for an auto-mix software generally have untrained ears to know any better.

Being an expert in hearing loss, and the protection of hearing I know that it is physically impossible to 'train' your ears. I think again what you are trying to say is that you are more of an expert because you've exposed yourself to louder noise than bedroom DJ's.

Computer Music Magazine & Future Music magazine both disagree with you on this point, recent issues state that "You can get away with far lower lossy formats in club systems as the 'lost' elements would naturally be covered by both volume & the residual ambient noise within the venue", and "Quality of lossy Vs Lossless formats really only come into their own when producing music as opposed to replaying it - indeed many DJ's are still playing CD's which have an appreciably lower bitrate than th emajority of MP3's, yet the issue of audio quality never seems to arise for them".

To put it in a nutshell, the factor of what format is best, and what bitrate, and what timestretch algorithim will run & run - why?

Because we are all different! We have different requirements from our sounds, we have different skeletal structures which means that our Skulls absorb and process frequencies differently.

The quest for perfection will go on, and never be obtained (See: Wax Cylinder, Shellac, Vinyl, Tape, 8-track, Cassette, CD, Mini Disc, Etc Etc).

You make a lot of valid points about what's good and what's bad, you should take comfort in the fact that the majority of what's considered good in Fusion comes as a direct result of feedback from here and from testing groups (which include 'working DJ's' the world over, playing a variety of different music).

I'm sure that future releases will address some of the issues, just as Fusion addressed the issue people raised about 5 & 6.

And for your information - 6 is no longer for sale, and I'm sure that someone with your professionalism will not stoop to illegal means to obtain a copy will you.

R.

Thanks for sharing your views. We appreciate your feedback.

Regarding the problems with playback, I strongly recommend that you increase the buffer size in your sound card. Most of the M-Audio products I have used allow you to choose the number samples the sound card buffered in the driver. In other words, you can choose the amount of delay to dial it in for maximum performance. Try increasing the delay or latency to 512 or even 1024 samples. You shouldn't get dropouts with the latency set correctly.

Let us know if this does not help.