It's not about the ego...it's all about the music.

I've come to understand that no matter how many parties you play, albums you've cut, crowds you've swooned, general experience (noobs and pros alike) that you've got....it all comes down to the simple fact that its the music that keeps this business going. We're just here along for the ride.

I cannot consider myself a professional. I have never stated that "THIS IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING!". I do what I do because dammit...I love the music, and the multi-talented producers behind it.Mixmeister is my outlet for this. It has been for the last several years.

This community was established as a help forum designed and used for helping the noob user, as well as the experienced user, a place to come and discuss Mixmeister, upload sets done with Mixmeister, and to help each other out with MIXMEISTER. The mods and hosts are not paid by anyone. You may not always get the help you need here, as not all of us are experts in MM, but we seem to know our fair share. Tech Support is always a phone call away (1.888.800.0681), if we are unable to provide the answers that people seek. We are not "official" spokespersons for Numark or Mixmeister. We are an open forum that allows us to try to help each other as best we can.

I have been an avid user of the software since v.3 and have always stood behind the product and it's changes that have come over the years. My fear is that a lot of interest has been built around the "Older" software. As the company has taken support and future updates away, it does not mean that one product is "more" superior to the next. It's just understood that times change, older programs go away, and newer ones are created to take that place. Microsoft could care less about Windows ME, 95, 98..etc. So why should Numark & MM really support a program (like v3, 4, or even 5 in some cases) that is "outdated". Everyone has their own personal preference as to what version suits THEM. If you like using v.6...then please do. If you want to keep using v. 5, then PLEASE...do.... If MM and Numark decide outright that they're not going to support the older software then so be it. There are more than enough users here, that have used the various products over the years, that may or may not have the answers we seek. 6 Is still my favorite, only because I am most familiar with it. It's my comfort version, so to speak. I've tinkered with Fusion, and really love the interface the more I play with it. The song slicer could go away, but that's because it's wasted on me as I don't even use it.

Fusion is the next evolution of the software, and a great tool to increase the forte into the digital mixing realm. The controller will only add to the ease of use, as well as the next evolution of Mixmeister itself. It's not for everyone. Shoot, even previous versions weren't for everyone. This is how computers work. Only get the software that suites you. Purchase only things that you will use, otherwise it's just a waste of funds and your time.

I'm having one of those days...and just needed to vent.

<3 D


**The opinions expressed here are strictly mine, and mine alone. I am not speaking for the mods, hosts, or any other members of this forum. I did this...blame me

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DnC,

quote:

I cannot consider myself a professional. I have never stated that "THIS IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING!". I do what I do because dammit...I love the music, and the multi-talented producers behind it.Mixmeister is my outlet for this. It has been for the last several years.

Can I get an "Amen"?

quote:

The song slicer could go away, but that's because it's wasted on me as I don't even use it.

Major Dittos.

Hi,

Okay, lets take this step by step.

First of all, the title of your rant, apart from the first paragraph, has nothing to do with the content. Maybe a better title would be "Stop moaning you lot, Mixmeister (and the MODS and hosts) have moved on - live with it!"

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
I've come to understand that no matter how many parties you play, albums you've cut, crowds you've swooned, general experience (noobs and pros alike) that you've got....it all comes down to the simple fact that its the music that keeps this business going. We're just here along for the ride.

Yes and no.

Yes, if it weren't for the people who actually create the music, Professional DJs, Bedroom Mixers and Party CD burners would have no content to use.

No, because some users of mixmeister and related products are making the music. Playing is the basic use of the music. Mixing comes next. Then there's remixing, Mashups, etc etc. Some DJs make music. Look at Ableton, Acid etc etc. All used by Bedroom and Sooperstar DJs alike to make new or radically changed music.

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
I cannot consider myself a professional. I have never stated that "THIS IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING!". I do what I do because dammit...I love the music, and the multi-talented producers behind it.Mixmeister is my outlet for this. It has been for the last several years.

Fair enough. Some of us, however, are professional DJs. I'm sort of, as I also have a day job. And we need the best software for the job we do. Playing live and direct in front of a crowd needs and deserves this.

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
This community was established as a help forum designed and used for helping the noob user, as well as the experienced user, a place to come and discuss Mixmeister, upload sets done with Mixmeister, and to help each other out with MIXMEISTER.

Yes it was,
yes it is, but older versions are being squeezed out - are there any mods or hosts that don't have Fusion?,
yes it is,
and yes it was, but not so much as in days of yore.

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
The mods and hosts are not paid by anyone.

Well, I don't mind whether they are paid, in any way at all - money or free software - like copies of Fusion perhaps?

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
You may not always get the help you need here, as not all of us are experts in MM, but we seem to know our fair share. Tech Support is always a phone call away (1.888.800.0681), if we are unable to provide the answers that people seek. We are not "official" spokespersons for Numark or Mixmeister. We are an open forum that allows us to try to help each other as best we can.

Yes, I agree with all that you say here, but what use is Tech Support if they don't support bugs in previous versions?

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
My fear is that a lot of interest has been built around the "Older" software.

That's because a lot of users want to stay with the older version for very good reasons. Some can't afford the upgrade, some like the version they have very much, some dislike the new version very much. That is why there is a lot of interest. If this is, and wants to remain, a forum for Mixmeister users, then it needs to take into account the needs of all Mixmeister users, not just people with the latest product.

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
As the company has taken support and future updates away...

... Microsoft could care less about Windows ME, 95, 98..etc. So why should Numark & MM really support a program (like v3, 4, or even 5 in some cases) that is "outdated".

Now here is where I, and many others, have their biggest beef.

Microsoft do withdraw support for their products... eventually. This is usually over some years of the new product coming out. In addition, Microsoft can't be used as a very good comparison. This is because sales of their new operating systems are mostly intrinsically linked with Hardware upgrades.

New operating system comes out - People upgrade their pc (which has old version) - People get new version. Yes, people actually buy the new version, but this is mainly Companies and suchlike.

This is not how it happens with most other software. By all means withdraw support, Mr Mixmeister, but not immediately.
People have invested in their software, and expect a degree of support, even if that version has been superseded.

I believe that the people at Mixmeister made a concious decision to leave users of Mixmeister 6 in the lurch so that they would upgrade.

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
If MM and Numark decide outright that they're not going to support the older software then so be it.

Yes, but Is It Right?

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
Fusion is the next evolution of the software.

WRONG! Fusion is a new product! And I Quote:

quote:

All-new MixMeister Fusion released

After an extensive (and exhausting) development effort, we're proud to announce MixMeister Fusion, a brand new product designed to replace MixMeister Pro.

Fusion has been designed from the ground up to combine the fluid, on-the-fly capabilities of live performances with the pinpoint precision of the best studio production apps. It's got lots of sexy new features, and you can can read all about them on the Fusion page of this site.

It's here on This page.


There you go, Back Rant over.

We've both had a go now...

Peace

Gaz

**The opinions expressed here are also strictly mine, and mine alone. I am almost definitely not speaking for the mods & hosts, but probably quite a few members of this forum. I did this...blame Mixmeister Technology LLC

Great reply Gaz (and great topic Duck).

Gaz, I just want to comment about this part

quote:

Microsoft do withdraw support for their products... eventually. This is usually over some years of the new product coming out. In addition, Microsoft can't be used as a very good comparison. This is because sales of their new operating systems are mostly intrinsically linked with Hardware upgrades.

yes, Microsoft is not a good example, so I'll use my company as an example.

We are software developers who have created a program for a niche market (engineering firms), that has continuous product development. Over the years we have released many, many updates that added new features, and fixed previous bugs. There have been three occasions where we came out with a ‘new version’ that was vastly different than the previous version, similar to MM6 to Fusion.

When a client calls in with a bug from an old version, or requests a new feature, we spend ZERO time working on it. An upgrade exists that either does not have that bug, or it’s a non-issue in the new version (or sometime the bug still exists). If it’s a feature request that makes sense, we add it to the new app, not the old one. We do not spend our development time on old versions of software a handful of people may or may not be using. You will never create a new sale by fixing a bug in an old version. We want to make the most solid product we can, and that means driving forward, not stopping or reversing for ‘old’ products. It’s also difficult for us to draw the line in the sand, and push out a new update. Did we add enough features, are the bugs all fixed (never), or are there new bugs (poor testing), but either way, we decide when to push it out, with a balance of new useable features and bug fixes, for the benefit of the clients.

My overall point being, software is a business, and just like every other business, there are certain decisions that are made to drive the company/product forward. You may not understand or agree with the decisions, but then again, you don’t have to.

Gaz you make some excellent points.

I'm going to discuss this as a conversation only, don't let teh interweb offend...

quote:

Originally posted by Gaz Skeltz:
First of all, the title of your rant, apart from the first paragraph, has nothing to do with the content. Maybe a better title would be "Stop moaning you lot, Mixmeister (and the MODS and hosts) have moved on - live with it!"

Most of the new and experienced users have as well. I feel that I've seen more of an interest in Fusion and it's product line (I'm sure because it's the "new" thing) since it's release. We (as the mod/host staff) only elected to move the past product lines into the archives as we assumed that if MM was no longer going to support or sell these products, then they really didn't have a place being active. I can see a point in bringing them back, if people would understand that they will NOT be able to get adequate tech support on the older products, which just stirs up even more complaining and bitching on the boards. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when it's the same thing in every forum about "why are they not going to support it?", it just begins to grate on the nerves a little bit.

let me ask: Would you think it be beneficial to reinstate the older software forum rooms for access to post and reply? With the understanding that the only support you will get is ONLY community based? Knowing that as far as actual bug submission, lost playlist, the occasional hiccup could possibly not ever be solved?

Since this a community based support forum, then I would have to say YES to my own question. I can see the benefits. But I just don;t want to turn those forums into Fusion bashing forums. Everyone here loves the various different versions of Mixmeister, it's why we showed up here in the first place. I've mentioned before, I'm a stickler for the v6 line. Fusion is starting to grow on me, but I'm constantly using my copy of studio 6, because Fusion will not open my existing playlists. It was sbuilt from the ground up and uses new coding, I'm cool with thhat. My Fusion playlists sound 100x better than my older 6 playlists though. That is something I'll give Fusion props for. The sound quality is amazing.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
....it all comes down to the simple fact that its the music that keeps this business going.

Gaz replied:

Yes and no.

No, because some users of mixmeister and related products are making the music. Playing is the basic use of the music. Mixing comes next. Then there's remixing, Mashups, etc etc. Some DJs make music. Look at Ableton, Acid etc etc. All used by Bedroom and Sooperstar DJs alike to make new or radically changed music.

You are right. I did not mention that aspect of it all. I apologize for missing one of the key specialties of MM. I used ACID for years to try to digitally mix, then I found MM. Point taken, and sorry I missed that topic.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
...and to help each other out with MIXMEISTER.

and yes it was, but not so much as in days of yore.

But as a community we've seen an influx of pirated software users come through since Fusion's release. It gets irritating, because in some instances, we were the ones that got yelled at because we couldn't help on the support end. That's what is the most irritating point of all. There is a line we have to keep on this forum, and I'm not willing to cross that line again. I personally believe that this forum is a far cry from where it was 2 years ago when I returned. It was dead here. Now we have more activity, more member submissions than ever, and an influx of more people that have purchased a version of MM. Trust me, we want some form of support from MM & Numark here as much as you all do. I personally wish that we had dedicated staff from thir support dept here 24-7...but it doesn't work that way. (Maybe we should petition those funds for next year ) Since none of us wrote the program personally (Haven't seen Aaron for a minute)I can't say that any of us know the program truly in and out. It takes bits of information form multiple posts for me to even solve some of the easiest functions of Fusion sometimes. We're all still on that learning curve IMO.

quote:

Yes, I agree with all that you say here, but what use is Tech Support if they don't support bugs in previous versions?

Good question? Maybe it's the business practice that Numark wishes to use. MAybe they weren't a part of the equation when they purchased Fusion & MM Technologies. That is why it is important for us (the community of users) to keep that support alive. Not turn it into let's talk trash about the company and the software. I know I'm not in those board meetings and definitly don't make those decisions.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
If MM and Numark decide outright that they're not going to support the older software then so be it.

Yes, but Is It Right?

It's their business practice. It is up to you, the consumer to make the decision to purchase the "new" or not.

quote:

Originally posted by DnC:
Fusion is the next evolution of the software.

Fusion in my OPINION was the next logical step. User interfacing visually (as it may not be as easy on the eyes sometimes) with a working controller interface that mimics the screen so you can quit having to using a mouse the entire time.

Fusion has been designed from the ground up to combine the fluid, on-the-fly capabilities of live performances with the pinpoint precision of the best studio production apps. It's got lots of sexy new features, and you can can read all about them on the Fusion page of this site.[/QUOTE]

Studio 7 had that face lift as well, and I haven't heard that many complaints on it v. Fusion.

Gaz I respect your comments, and feel that some very valid points have been made. I would love to turn the archived forums down to version 5, but If it turns them back into an open season bitch session about Fuison, I'll pull them back off immediately.

Would the community like them turned back on?

My

v2 was cool...came back to see what mixmeister had been up to and got me pro5...then 6 came but hesitated to upgrade...then got me fusion.


upgrading was not cheap...and I did have the same problem as duck...my pro5 .mmp files were getting useless...later I made the decision to get rid of them...why?

because fusion is that good simple days are over but the learning is worth it...and part of the fun (ask my gf Lisa ) not just a new program, a by far improved program.

v2 was in it's infancy...and anything before fusion was not mature enough...for me fusion is just the real beginning of what MM ever wants to be...

I only wish the upgrading was cheaper...(and if you don't want to upgrade for whatever reason I respect that ...)

I do feel sorry though for those who don't get updates and support for their loved versions...I see MM and Numark are fully concentrated on the future...

For yet another , I will just say that I can really relate to phreaq's take on it as a business matter, probably because I also have worked for a software developer: CAD/CAM software for sheet metal fabrication. And just by way of establishing scale here, the CAD/CAM software runs laser and plasma machines that cut metal which can be extremely expensive ... so naturally the machine operators using that s/w are deeply interested in having any and all bugs resolved by the developer.

For that developer also, the business rule is: a bug fix release (or a tech support work-around) until there is a new program version release, at which point you go to the new version ... or not, but if you don't, it is with the understanding that there will not be any further bug fixes (e.g. no further development) for your old version.

Interim bug fixes are happily made by the developer because in this industry, people pay a huge amount for the software ($5,000 to $30,000 per license) and they pay an annual maintenance fee ($1,000 and up) ... and that's what pays the salaries of the people who are working on the bug fixes. Most business people understand the drill and they upgrade as soon as an upgrade is available, because that's part of what their maintenance fee pays for.

Obviously that's not the business model MixMeister is working with: they are charging a relatively low sales price and there is no annual maintenance. Continued financial viability requires the user base to move into upgrades as the become available, but of course, the user can elect not to spend the money -- and the user needs to understand that MM elects not to spend the money continuing to develop an outdated product.

Duck, you've made a nice gesture regarding keeping the forums open for postings that seek help from the user community ... but what I hear is an argument for continued, unremunerated development effort on the part of MM, so I'm not sure the pre-Fusion users would be satisfied with your offer.

quote:

The song slicer could go away, but that's because it's wasted on me as I don't even use it.

<----I second that emotion, never did I see something so difficult to grasp...and wondering just how good it is.
Tried to use this several times on my old disco vinyl which I converted to mp3...and no luck with it.....a matter of fact nightmare.

quote:

The song slicer could go away, but that's because it's wasted on me as I don't even use it.

As far as I'm concerned, that part is trial and error, but a vital necessity when it's obvious that the music loses pace in certain areas. I've always been successful by removing the measure markers that start the maylay, but also adding a marker can sometimes correct those issues. My latest mix "Illusions" had to have corrections in a ton of spots. I'm not sure if the slicer is an integral part of the program, but if it was removed, I would be irritated if I couldn't fix those problems. Fusion is where I started and aside from a few issues that I have with it, it sure as hell beats making mixes straight from vinyl for the past 15 years.

Just my

For what it's worth, I finally used song slicer a week ago to get a transition to work just right. The beatmatch was slightly off, and after working with the outro section of the track I got it just right.

Well it depends on what music your mixing but the slicer has to stay. To me the slicer acts as if its a large master bracket. What i would see is perhaps a friendlier bracket with "tap to snap" and a manual slicer tap that allows you to quickly and easily place them.

Hi folks,

the more I work with MM the more I see that it´s brilliant!

Why?

When you work with turntables you need a huge equipment from pricy turntables over mixers till BPM - finders and so on. It is a very hard work to mix tracks together, because you don´t know how it sounds! You have no key - finder - you can only listen to your ears!

MM has so much DJ - tools: key - finder, BPM - finder, sound control and not at last the effects!
When you work with Camel Space you see that the effects are brilliant DJ - tools!!!!!!!!!
You must buy many, many, many tools when you want to have such a palette from effects with a turntable - equipment! Yes guys, it is really so! There are slap - back - effects, flangers, reverb, delay, scratching and so many brilliant tools! You can really work with it like a pro!!!!

And than there is Izotope! You have a valve - equalizer! One Pro - DJ from mixupload.com has told me that the sound of MM is not so good than the sound of turntable - mixes, but I think that this is a question of the adjustment. You have a volume - display! When you set the volume to high the sound can be distored! 0 is the maximum! But that is normal in music!!! With Izotope you can create a perfect dance - sound with a fine bass, really!

The song - slicer is good!! Why? Sometimes the markers are a very little bit before or behind a beat! When I create loops, or when I begin a transition I adjust the beat perfect at this place with a first beat measure!
So all is perfect synchron! I also can adjust the song new. Difficult is only to adjust songs with more than one beat, for example 4/4 and 3/4 beats and so on.

Do you know "Come on Eileen" from "The Dexies Midnight Runners"? With this beat MM has problems and I too! Can anybody tell me what beat this is? I would be very pleased about this!


And why I do this all? Because I love music!! It is my favourite hobby like others play soccer, ride with their bicycles or so. O.k., this is more healthy ! But I try to do this also often! I don´t sit the whole day before my PC!


Result:

MM is a fantastic DJ - equipment, and when you compare it with other equipments it has a lower price and I really mean that it is coequal!!!!

P.S.:

Duck, the hosts are great! Don´t worry!

But I think:
Why doesn´t work Mixmeister Technologies with us together! I really mean it so!

For example they can invite us for a representation! This is no joke! I don´t think that they can work brilliant with MM Fusion for example at the WMC!
Imagine there are many, many DJ´s and than comes Mixmeister - Technologies!
First Nebulus plays house, than Discovery trance, than plur a set and than Gayle a chill - out set! Perhaps I a electro - house - set! Or other brilliant DJ´s here!

I´m sure the crowd would rampage! I mean good DJ´s think MM is for boneheads! The real DJ works with CD - running - gears and / or turntables!
So damned why Mixmeister Technologies is not so clever to show that MM Fusion and Studio is absolut equal!

We all have a heart for music! Who has developed MM? A programme